Israel: Outgoing Ambassador To US Views Iran Issue, Saudi Plan, Bilateral Ties
Interview with Dani Ayalon, Israel's outgoing Ambassador in
Washington, by Ben Kaspit; in Washington, date not given: "Bush Will
Take Steps Against Iran, Use Force if Necessary"
Ma'ariv (Internet Version-WWW)
Sunday, November 19, 2006
Language: ENGLISH Record Type: FULLTEXT

Document Type: OSC Translated Text
Word Count: 6,491

If you told Dani Ayalon that at the age of 50 he would already have
past of a 4-year term on Israel's foreign service most senior,
sensitive, challenging, and prestigious post, he would not have
believed you either. Starting out as a nondescript compromise between
the two elders of Israeli politics, Ari'el Sharon and Shim'on Peres,
Ayalon made it to the top as Israel's ambassador in the world's most
important city. Now he is coming back from Washington to Ramat
Hasharon a winner.

At first glance, he looks like an accountant. Wearing thick
spectacles, his attire is as chic as a pharmacist robe, and his hairdo
is extremely outdated. Under this facade, however, hides a very
talented, cunning, and sophisticated man who outsmarted even those who
ignored or eulogized him too soon. His academic looks are misleading
and numbing. He knows exactly what to do and how to do it, which made
him one of the most effective ambassadors Israel ever had in the US
capital. His term included a particularly juicy scandal, in the wake
of which one of our newspapers said he would disgracefully be sent
home and "the earth will shake" once his deeds become public. Yet, it
blew over and left no mark. Ayalon is returning to Israel pleased and
at peace with himself, with a long list of friends in the world's
capital.

(Kaspit) Do you remember how Sharon told you the post was yours?

(Ayalon) Yes, I do. He suddenly called for me and asked, "Say, how
long will it take you to pack your things and go abroad?" I did not
know what he was talking about, so he added, "abroad to Washington, to
be ambassador there." I was stunned. I told him I have to consult my
wife, Anne, and find a school for the kids, so I believe it would take
me 3 to 4 months. He said, "Try to do this as fast as you can." He
shook my hand and added, "Congratulations. I am certain that your
friend Condoleezza will help you there. I just want you to update Anne
on everything you do with Condoleezza...." On 28 July, I reported to
the Washington Embassy.

(Kaspit) You were lucky.

(Ayalon) I was naive and did everything naively. I must have been the
right man in the right place at the right time. Everyone knows you
need luck.

(Kaspit) Were you thrilled? After all, being sent on such a mission at
your age....

(Ayalon) I was 46. I was excited and elated, but I remained focused. I
was not scared. I had worked in the prime minister's bureau. I had
some political experience, decisionmakers trusted me, and I knew where
I was going. I knew Condoleezza Rice very well. She used to be
national security adviser and we worked very closely.

(Kaspit) I would like to jump right to the end of your term, which
ended with the war in Lebanon. Are the Americans disappointed with us?

(Ayalon) We need to make a distinction here. The President said it was
a great Israeli victory. They judge things by their results and they
saw that Hizballah suffered a blow, was pushed away from the border,
and so on. Things were different on the professional levels. The
Pentagon kept asking questions, mainly on the operative and tactic
level: What did the Air Force do? What were the special measures used?
When are we moving in and when not? They were watching it closely.

(Kaspit) They say that they severely criticized the IDF performance.

(Ayalon) I would not call it criticism. They wondered about it. The
fact is that they presently badly want to send military delegations
here to learn lessons and work with the IDF, to study what transpired,
how things happened.

(Kaspit) Did they send anyone?

(Ayalon) No. The IDF wanted to complete its own investigations first,
so they postponed it to early 2007, after we learn what happened. They
realized that we had numerous mishaps and were undoubtedly very
surprised and disappointed by them. They have some tough questions
concerning our intelligence: How were we surprised like that? How come
they and we did not know about the true power of Hizballah? At the
same time, I can tell you -- and I know what I am saying -- that this
did not impair on the way they view and appreciate the IDF. You have
to remember that the Americans are having their own experiences in
Afghanistan and Iraq. They know that today's wars are not what wars
used to be. They know this is a complicated situation of terrorists
mixed with civilians and not tank columns rushing forward. They
understand that the IDF encountered a new kind of warfare, facing a
terror organization with the strategic abilities of a state. Sure they
all would rather see us defeating Hizballah in a far more elegant and
determined move, but on the other hand it served as a warning sign and
the fact it happened now is a good thing. Now we will hold many
bilateral meetings with them and look at all the material. We used
American weapons and they would also like to see the means we seized
from the other side. We are committed to them in this area, and they
will receive all the information we have.

(Kaspit) Did they really give us card blanche to do everything in that war?

(Ayalon) Almost everything. They asked us not to damage Lebanese
infrastructures, so as not to hurt Al-Sanyurah, and to involve as few
civilians as possible. I was in constant contact with Condoleezza and
her people, Yoram Turbowicz was in contact with Steve Hadley, and
Tzipi Livni also talked to Rice. We were fully coordinated. I gave my
input from here about the situation here and it flowed well.

(Kaspit) They were furious because we promised to stop bombing Lebanon
for 48 hours after the Kafr Qana incident and we did not really stop.

(Ayalon) It depends on who you ask. The State Department was angry.
The White House was not.

(Kaspit) Since this was the precursor of the real struggle against
Iran, what do you think about President Bush? Will he allow Iran to go
nuclear?

(Ayalon) No. I have been here for nearly five years. I know my way
around the corridors. I maintain good ties with the President, and I
am friends with his people. I tell you because I know that first they
will try every political path possible, then they will try imposing
effective sanctions, and in the end, if there is no other choice, he
will take action.

(Kaspit) What does this mean?

(Ayalon) Look, the Iranians tried to feel things out and conduct
negotiations seeking a promise they would not be attacked. The
President strongly refused. He always says that all the options are
open. I believe that the Iranian nuclear race could be stopped with
political means. I also believe that if this will not work, he will
take tougher measures and even impose a naval blockade like the one
they imposed on Cuba.

(Kaspit) What if this does not work?

(Ayalon) Then he will take action. I believe in that. Bush is a
determined man who believes in his path. He must not be
underestimated.

(Kaspit) Iran, however, is not Cuba. It is a superpower that produces
ballistic missiles, weapons, fighter planes, and oil, and has millions
of soldiers.

(Ayalon) As far as I know, Washington estimates that the Iranian Army
is not particularly strong. Perhaps even the opposite. This is why
they are trying to manufacture this bravado, with marches and parades.
They are doing that to cover up basic insecurities. It is an attempt
to create deterrence. Iran is not some mighty power that cannot be
challenged.

(Kaspit) Yes, but their army is big, trained, and highly motivated.
They are nobody's fools.

(Ayalon) True, but they are unable to stand up to Western technology
on any scale. We must not consider a potential confrontation with Iran
looking through the prism of the situation in Iraq. It will be
something completely different. They will not send a garrison or large
ground forces there. It will be an aerial operation with limited
ground moves.

(Kaspit) I must repeat my question. Do you really believe that this
weary and unpopular President -- who is up to his knees in blood in
Iraq, with horrible popularity ratings, who has just lost the Congress
-- could opt for such an adventure?

(Ayalon) Yes, I do. You have to know this man. I was privileged and I
consider him a personal friend. People who know him know he is very
determined. He is certain of the moral supremacy of democracies over
dictatorships. He is a man of vision with a broad worldview who does
not fear public images. He was not depressed even when he was down. He
once told me that if you keep dealing with hardships, if you stay on
your path, people will eventually follow you.

(Kaspit) Were you convinced in private talks with him that he would
not let Iran become a nuclear power?

(Ayalon) Yes. He never thinks about public opinion polls. This is the
fascinating thing about the presidential system. He thinks in historic
terms. He thinks of the right thing, not the popular thing to do. The
way he sees it, ayatollahs with nuclear bombs is an intolerable
combination that threatens the existing world order, which is why he
will not let this happen on his shift. This is why, to conclude my
estimate, I believe that sanctions and political pressure have a 50%
chance to succeed. If not, he will act; by force, if necessary. He
means what he says. After all, he is the president of the United
States, is he not?

The President's Boots

(Kaspit) You spent a lot of time with President Bush. What can you
tell us about him, his wife Laura, and his family on the personal
level?

(Ayalon) They are a classic American couple from real America, not
those you meet in New York and San Francisco. He has very deep values.
He is not simplistic at all, but very complicated and intelligent. He
looks at the finest details and prepares himself for every
eventuality. At 40, he was born again and became a very religious
Christian, much thanks to and with the support of Laura. She is a very
special lady, didactic. She was a librarian and a schoolteacher. She
is very pleasant, most supportive, a perfect partner, mainly morally.
When he was young, Bush was an alcoholic, but he stopped drinking at
40 and has not touched alcohol since.

(Kaspit) They say that you and the President have the same boots. Is it true?

(Ayalon) Yes. For my birthday, my friends took me to a shoemaker who
makes his boots from ostrich skin with embroidered initials. He has
the US flag on every boot, I have the Israeli flag. When we met later,
I pulled up my pants and showed him my Israeli flag. He immediately
pulled up his, showed me the American flag, and laughed.

(Kaspit) Is he really such a sheriff who sees everything in black and white?

(Ayalon) He is a big patriot. Besides, he has that Israeli quality of
being nobody's fool. Arik (Sharon) once told him: "If they fired from
Mexico at Texas, Mexico would be gone in an hour." The President said,
"Why wait an hour if we can do that in half an hour?"

(Kaspit) How did he take what happened to Sharon?

(Ayalon) Oh, very badly. Every time the President saw me, on whatever
occasion, he would ask me about Arik, how he was doing, inquiring
about his health. He used to tell me that I should tell Sharon to take
care of himself, that we need him, that he should lose weight. It was
as if he knew what was coming.

(Kaspit) Who did you call first?

(Ayalon) I called Condi. Then I called Steve Hadley, Elliot Abrams,
and all the others. I told them what happened. They were shocked. They
knew Arik very well. They spent time on his ranch. Condi was there
during her famous visit. Elliot had barbeque with him. Arik visited
the President's ranch. This proves once again that there is no
alternative -- even when dealing with relations between countries --
to personal issues.

(Kaspit) How damaging were the midterm elections for the President's
performance?

(Ayalon) I believe it only caused him peripheral damage. Over the past
100 years, whenever a president served two terms, the 6 th year
syndrome came and made him lose congressional representatives and
senators. There was nothing surprising about that. The Americans
wanted a change, that much was certain, and they had it. It will have
an impact on the President, but only on the style and nuance level. He
will have to be statelier, more sensitive, share more with others. He
already had lunch with Nancy Pelosi, designated house speaker, and
they agreed to cooperate. I am not worried about this.

(Kaspit) How will it affect us?

(Ayalon) It will not affect us, just the contrary. The Americans'
support for us is not partisan. Nancy Pelosi, Tom Lantos, Rahm
Emmanuel, Joe Bayden, Steny Hoyer -- all those prominent Democrats --
are huge friends of Israel. Tom Dashel once said that when it comes to
the issue of Israel, there are no Democrats or Republicans. They are
all Americans.

(Kaspit) How do you explain the fact that Rumsfeld was deposed 15
minutes after the defeat?

(Ayalon) This is not a precise account. Rumsfeld got tired and was
leaving anyway. He holds two records: he was the youngest and the
oldest secretary of defense. He wanted to set a new record of service
term and he will in December, so everything is fine. Sure he sustained
a harsh blow here. He became an electoral burden. The Democrats and
the pragmatic Republicans, those associated with Bush Sr, marked him
as the bad guy. The fact that he is being replaced proves that the
President understands the change, understands what happened, and is
going to change policies, mainly on Iraq. Special Thanks to Bibi's
Guide

(Kaspit) Let us go back to you. How did you prepare for your Washington role?

(Ayalon) I deliberated and held consultations. It was not simple. An
ambassador is the face of Israel, the ultimate representative, the
role model, and the position requires media exposure.

(Kaspit) In which you had no experience.

(Ayalon) That is right, but I was not idle and took a guide.

(Kaspit) There was an old lady who lived in New York and coached
Netanyahu at the time, Lillian Wilder.

(Ayalon) Yes, her. She was my instructor too. She is very old, but she
is up to date, watching the events, knows what is happening. She is
amazing. She knows all the secrets, techniques, the ins and outs of
the media. She may be from a different generation, but she sees all.
You sit there, in her place, facing the camera, and every move you
make is analyzed. First of all, she would tell you what to wear. I,
for example, had to trim my hair. She analyzes every lock of your
hair. She told me to wear long collars in brown and red. Then she
threw me in the water. Every time I appeared on TV, for a long period,
I would send her the tape and she watched and analyzed it. She taught
me how to answer questions, how not to avoid answers because the
American public is not stupid. She told me how to look straight at the
camera, stay focused, be brief and honest, use imagery the Americans
understand, be very sensitive and open. It is a real profession. My TV
appearances here only improved, and the better I came across on the
media, the more I was interviewed; and the more I was interviewed,
more decisionmakers saw me here. I created an image. This, coupled
with the fact that I was very close to Israeli prime minister, made me
more credible and reliable. Therefore, over time, established myself
as a well-connected, professional ambassador with whom you can close
deals.

(Kaspit) Everyone is talking about the neo-conservatives, the clear
Israel supporters who already have been expelled from the Bush
administration. How much will it harm the relationship?

(Ayalon) Not at all. Look, when the war in Lebanon started, one of the
most liberal Democrats told me: "Go for Nasrallah's head." The
Neo-Cons are not the only ones who understand terror these days. The
world is changing. Everybody knows now what Israel is going through.
They understand the consequences of terror. From the US point of view,
Israel has turned into something like a laboratory, a model that
proves that terror can be beaten, that there are ways of dealing with
suicide terrorists. Every day that goes by with no suicide terrorist
blowing up in Tel Aviv helps the Americans prove to the Europeans that
they must not blink, that they must not make compromises with terror.
Therefore, the difference between the Neo-Cons and the liberal
Democrats in this area is insubstantial.

(Kaspit) If in the next presidential elections Condoleezza should run
against Hillary Clinton, who gets your vote?

(Ayalon) That is a good question. It is a real problem for me.

(Kaspit) Is America even ready for a female president?

(Ayalon) I believe it is. I even believe they are ready for a black
president. I believe we should watch Senator Barack Obama. Imagine
Hillary running for president on the Democratic ticket with Obama as
her vice president. This could be very attractive.

(Kaspit) Based on what you know, does Condi even want to run?

(Ayalon) She says she does not. She told me she wants to be the NFL
commissioner. She is crazy about football. She has autographed
pictures and balls in her office. I hope she will run. Laura Bush told
her she should. You know, the President's family sees her as one of
them. The President calls her, my little sister. She is almost alone
in the world. She is an only child, her parents died, and I think she
has an uncle or two, and that is all. Her intimate family is the
President's family, and America is her extended family. She is
popular, talented, and very perceptive. She will have to gain some
experience on domestic issues, but she could make an excellent
president. The Pollard Affair: No End in Sight

(Kaspit) Tell me why the Pentagon does not stand us? Unlike other
administration branches, there they always drive us down to our knees,
forcing us to replace the Defense Ministry director general, making
our lives hell.

(Ayalon) This is not precise. The Pentagon officials focus on the
safety of US soldiers on the one hand, and on preventing the
distribution of advanced technologies to threatening countries on the
other. Israel, which is viewed as an ally, also competes with the
Americans for technology markets. Over the past two years, these two
issues crossed each other's path. Israel exported advanced
technologies to a country such as China that the Americans view as a
potential threat. When it comes to the raw flesh of American security,
they make no compromises. They expected Israel to be more considerate,
more transparent, more consulting.

(Kaspit) We had a feeling that they were trying to put us down.

(Ayalon) I disagree. I believe they were right on this one. There was
a problem with trust. For some reason, we did not reveal everything to
them. I believe we could have quickly overcome this problem if we
really shared things with them, if we notified them ahead of time.
There was a lack of coordination and there was an Israeli
administrative flop. From the Americans' point of view, this was a
surprise and a disappointment, and when someone close to you, an ally,
disappoints you and gives you a bad surprise, you are really hurt.

(Kaspit) I happened to hear the full and detailed Israeli version, and
I was convinced everything was done bona fides and in full
transparency.

(Ayalon) I am sorry to say that is not exactly so. The truth is
somewhere in the middle. There would not be any problem if we were
transparent enough, and they asked us to. We totally failed on the
Falcon affair, and we should have learned our lesson. We believed that
if we take this up with the President, we would be able to circumvent
this. We failed to understand that we were dealing with an orderly
system of an orderly state. As the ambassador, I say that we are fully
responsible for the entire affair.

(Kaspit) Defense Ministry sources claimed that you, Military Attache
Amos Yadlin, and Herzl Budinger who mediated in this affair, did more
damage than good.

(Ayalon) This is an irresponsible statement. The very opposite is
true. Budinger revived the relations and saved the day. I tell you
because I know. Amos Yadlin did a great job too. We committed two
sins. First, when we did not cooperate with the Americans to begin
with; and second, when we denied, which made them even more upset.
This is where Budinger saved us. He came, checked it, saw that we were
on the wrong side, and told the Americans that they were right. The
way they run things, if you admit you were wrong, you are forgiven.
Our side kept fencing in and denying everything, which only made them
more furious.

(Kaspit) Come on, we are talking about some negligible spare parts of
drones that were supplied as part of a maintenance contract. What is
the fuss?

(Ayalon) It does not matter. We should have reported it. Besides,
there was more at stake. They later discovered that we supplied
additional means to the Chinese. We simply should have reported that.
That is all. When you hide things, you violate confidence. Trust
between parties is the most important thing. Arik Sharon cast his
prestige on this. He knew that when you deal with the Americans, you
must be a man of your word, with no surprises. Look, here, if they
catch a four-star general doing such nonsense, he goes home
immediately. These are the standards here.

(Kaspit) Is this why they are so obsessive about Pollard?

(Ayalon) Pollard is a sad story. I was the first ambassador who
visited him in prison. Arik agreed on that with Bush when they met on
the ranch. It was not an easy visit. Bush does not have levers of
influence on the Pollard issue. The intelligence community marked him
as a symbol of everything that is evil. When Clinton promised to
release him, George Tenet threatened to resign. The Jewish community
has a problem with this too, in view of the dual loyalty issue.

(Kaspit) Still, he spent the past 22 years in prison. Even evil has a
limit, does it not?

(Ayalon) I am sorry to say that I cannot yet see the end of it.

(Kaspit) What did Defense Secretary Weinberger write to the judge
before the sentence was handed down that made it so stiff?

(Ayalon) They would not show us that material. I made some inquiries
and found out that he wrote that Pollard exposed all the US spy
networks on the other side of the iron curtain, which hurt hundreds of
their agents there. I do not know if this is true.

(Kaspit) How could he expose that? He sent information to Israel, not
to Soviet Russia.

(Ayalon) Yes, but they claim that the Soviet intelligence in Israel
exposed it here, from us, and thus the US intelligence suffered a
terrible blow. We have a problem here because on the legal level, all
the appeals were rejected. We must work quietly, keep a low profile,
and pray. (end Ayalon)

Secret Contacts with Saudi Arabia

Ayalon knows a thing or two about low profiles. As political adviser
and later as ambassador, most of his activities were secret. Today, he
was willing to reveal a little. Before he became ambassador, reporter
Tom Friedman exposed the details of the Saudi initiative, which was
later anchored in the Beirut understandings. Official Israel rejected
the initiative at once. Ayalon coordinated this reaction with the
Americans, and then Prime Minister Ari'el Sharon summoned him.

"Speaking to inner circles," Ayalon revealed, "Arik said different
things. Clearly the initiative principles of going back to the 1967
borders and the refugees' return were out of the question, but Arik
was open to new ideas and asked me to find out how far the Saudis were
willing to go. This may be an opportunity to upgrade our relations
with them and make some progress, he said. He told me, "go for it,"
and I called Andrei Vorovin, the Russian representative in the
Quartet, and asked him to go to Saudi Arabia on our behalf."

(Kaspit) Why Vorovin? What about the Americans?

(Ayalon) We decided the Russians would do better. In any event, the
Americans were still experiencing the 9/11 trauma and were mad at the
Saudis. We did, however, talk to them and coordinated the Russian's
mission. Vorovin had served as ambassador in Riyadh, he was well
connected with the royal court and the top echelons there, and it all
looked good.

(Kaspit) What happened?

(Ayalon) Not much. In the winter and spring of 2002, he went there a
few times, but the Saudis were uneasy. They said it was not the time
for a political track and feared of leaks.

(Kaspit) What was Arik's idea?

(Ayalon) Given that Arafat was already an outcast, Arik thought about
negating a solution for the Palestinian problem with Saudis, the
Egyptians, and other moderate parties, and through them pressure and
neutralize Arafat. While doing that, we could gain the extra value of
establishing ties with them. At a certain point, I too went on a
mission in the United States. I even once sat in Cafe Milan in
Washington with Adil Jabir, the king's political adviser, my immediate
counterpart, but he was afraid, got up, and left the cafe.
Regrettably, they were not ready yet, though Arik was ready to discuss
things. I believe we could have reached agreements on the Saudi
initiative as well and create something. The issue is back on the
agenda today, but Arik saw it then. With certain amendments, the Arab
initiative could serve as a basis for discussions. When I arrived in
Washington, I continued my contacts, talked to Arab ambassadors, but
it did not reach fruition, which is a shame. (end Ayalon)

Ayalon returned from the United States an eager supporter of the
American presidential government system, which is why he supports the
change of government system here. "Yes, a presidential government," he
said, "why not? It has been keeping the Americans, who like us are
made up of tribes and communities, together for more than 200 years.
We should import the system as a whole, not in parts, including a
constitution and a system of checks and balances. It is a balanced and
effective system that allows the government to run the state. Most
importantly, you know the elections date and you can plan ahead and
prepare. You know exactly if the elections will be in 4, 40, or 400
years. This is very important, essential really. We should not fear
this system. The fact that public representatives are directly elected
in their regions should not deter us. We can balance it and protect
representation in various ways." Bush Said: Leave Dani Alone

It is impossible to hold an interview with Ayalon without bringing up
"the affair," that cast a shadow on the last quarter of his term and
threatened to tarnish him personally. It is an unbelievable story, in
the framework of which Ayalon filed a complaint with the attorney
general against Foreign Minister Silvan Shalom, his superior, because
his personal assistant Liran Patrisel was fired. Thousands of words
were said, written, and broadcast concerning this juicy scandal.
Yedi'ot Aharonot eulogized Ayalon back and forth so many times. They
said, "he will be recalled immediately," They said it was "an
earthquake." They sent a "special investigator" from the State's
Service Commissioner, who came and went twice, with a translator. The
ground was set for the downfall of Ayalon and then, when everything
was ready, he won, big time.

(Kaspit) What were you thinking when you filed a complaint against
your superior minister?

(Ayalon) I thought that justice will be done and truth will be
revealed, that is all.

(Kaspit) They said it was the act of a lunatic, that you are suicidal.

(Ayalon) Well, I did not kill myself. I felt it was draconian to take
my assistant, one of the best people in the Foreign Service, and fire
him just like that. I felt it was wrong and decided to go all the way
with it. I fully trusted the justice system and eventually, despite
all the bleak prophecies, I won. Look, there was this business of
things they said about my wife, the dirt they threw at her. It was
absolutely crazy.

(Kaspit) Now that you are smarter, having experienced a terrible year,
was it worth it?

(Ayalon) Yes. It was hard, but I knew that I was right all along. I
did not have a moment of hesitation about this. I walked on solid
ground and the prime minister backed me up, which was amazing and very
moving. Here too, everyone, from the President down to administration
officials, supported me.

(Kaspit) Was the President aware of the affair?

(Ayalon) Sure he was, and he sent messages.

(Kaspit) To whom?

(Ayalon) To anyone who would listen. "Leave Dani Ayalon alone," he said.

(Kaspit) And what did Sharon tell you in your private talks?

(Ayalon) He said, "Don't worry. Keep working. Everything is fine."
Everyone thought he would stick a knife in my back, but I was calm.
Arik is no back stabber. Luckily for me, everyone here in Washington
received all the right messages from Arik and Dubi (Weissglas), and
work went on as usual.

(Kaspit) At the same time, rumors, gossip, and alleged corruption
stories were published in Israel. How did you take it?

(Ayalon) It as hard, but I had a conviction. I knew there was nothing
to it. I knew that Anne was on her best behavior. It gave me strength.
Besides, do not forget what huge work was done here at the time when
it all happened.

(Kaspit) As may be recalled, the affair ended in a whimper, with
Ayalon being reprimanded for minor procedural issues. Those who
plotted against him in the Foreign Ministry, and mainly the State
Service Commissioner, who wasted expensive means on an unnecessary,
programmatic, and questionable investigation, came out crawling.

What hurt you the most?

(Ayalon) It hurt me that Anne was even mentioned in this affair. This
is a woman who had a wonderful career in Israel, who gave up
everything to come here and represent Israel. She did that proudly,
and in the end she had to go through this agony. Yes, she mainly
worked with American communities here. This is her specialty. She was
born here and knew them. It was terrible to see how they used two
employees who were fired to level false accusations at us.

(Kaspit) Nevertheless, there were stories about her misconduct,
screams, tyranny, putting down employees

(Ayalon) This is absolutely not true. Anyone who knows Anne is aware
of how warm and caring she is. Sure, she has her high standards. She
makes demands and is pedantic. When people are invited to the
ambassador's residence, she wants everything to be spick-and-span. Let
me tell you that she asks nothing less of herself. Certain people may
find this inconvenient, but on the whole, she did an excellent and
important work here. Anyone will tell you. Ask Condoleezza, the
community leaders, anyone you want. She did it the best.

(Kaspit) You found yourself questioned and humiliated by a special
investigator of the State Service Commissioner.

(Ayalon) This was totally Kafkaesque. Here I was, on the frontline,
dealing with serious problem, and suddenly someone jumps me from the
back, coming from our side. It was not easy, but I kept my cool.

(Kaspit) Do you remember the most difficult moment?

(Ayalon) Yes. It was shocking when the investigator asked Anne whether
she even likes Israelis, whether she feels comfortable around
Israelis. Listen, there is a limit. This was so twisted, so
provincial. What does it mean, does she love Israelis?

(Kaspit) What did she answer?

(Ayalon) She said: "What do you mean? I left my country, my family,
and my religion 28 years ago, and immigrated to Israel where I built a
home, made a family, became a proud Jew and Israeli, and it was my own
choice!" That is what she answered. It was an insulting, twisted
question. It was hard. She almost broke down. I saw her crying. The
very fact that they dared come here, wasted the people's money on this
nonsense, and added insult to injury is preposterous. After all, she
is not even a state employee. That glorified investigator, who spent
tens of thousands of dollars here, asked what car she drives in
America and what she drove in Israel, as if she came here and the job
went up to her head, like she now made it to the top. How can we tell
him that in Israel she had a nice Mazda 6 and here she drives a used
Honda Civic? It is hard to believe, but he actually thought that the
ambassador's wife came to America to upgrade her car. Do you
understand this? The hardest moment was when we felt the knives
stabbing. When I told the prime minister about this, he
laughed.(Kaspit) He laughed?

(Ayalon) Yes. He said, "You are not used to that. Well, you will. I
got used to that a long time ago."

(Kaspit) What do you think about the commissioner, who is still
conducting an investigation against you?

(Ayalon) I would rather not say what I think. Look, there is no need
to think even. It is enough to read the so-called fiction novels he
writes. I understand his second book will soon be issued, in view of
the success of the first one.

(Kaspit) There were ugly rumors about you. They said you and Liran
Patrisel had a special relationship going.

(Ayalon) Look, this was really too much. My family, my friends, and I
know who I am, so I was not worried, not even for a moment. There
were, however, moments that I prayed that someone run a story in the
media so that I could file a libel suit and get it over with. People
laughed. Serious reporters called Liran asking for his reaction, and
anyone who heard him dropped it at once. It made me laugh, but I
realized that someone lost it totally. It was an obsession that went
out of control. I am glad it is all behind me now.

(Kaspit) At a certain point, there were reports that you taped the top
officials of the Foreign Ministry. Everyone in Israel talked about
these tapes.

Ayalon laughed.

Do such tapes exist?

(Ayalon) Let us just say that such tapes exist, but there is nothing on them.

(Kaspit) What do you mean?

(Ayalon) After the whole affair exploded, someone told me that I
should record everyone. I realized that I made a mistake when I failed
to tape them, so I taped a few conversations in retrospect (as
published), but there was nothing on them. When the story came out
that I have tapes, it gained momentum. The Foreign Ministry guys know
exactly what they told me in our conversations and they had reasons to
worry. The fact that everyone feared they were on tape helped the
truth come out. I was very lucky. (end Ayalon)

It turns out that Ayalon fooled everyone. Senior Foreign Ministry
staffers lost many nights of sleep between the time the affair was
first published and the time it faded away because he had "tapes."
Once again it turned out that behind this sleepy facade, old-fashioned
hairdo and glasses, hides a creative and fine mind. Ayalon protected
his reputation and returned home safely.

(Kaspit) What now?

(Ayalon) Now I intend to quit as civil servant. The service as well as
other Israeli institutions needs rotation, fresh faces. I have reached
the top. I have many offers and I will consider them after I quit. I
am certain that I will do business and represent American investors
here. I will use my connections there and acquaintances here to bring
in investments.

(Kaspit) What about politics? Seems to me it suits you.

(Ayalon) Maybe later. I had some offers. There is talk about me
running for Hod Hasharon mayor, where I live, but it is too soon. It
is just good to be home.

(The same edition of Ma'ariv carries a page-4 report by correspondents
Amir Rapaport and Uri Yablonka, who add: "Defense Ministry Director
General Amos Yaron yesterday called on Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni to
summon Ambassador Dany Ayalon for a clarification conversation in view
of remarks he made in an interview with Ben Kaspit upon concluding his
US tour, which were published in the Sofshavu'a supplement.

("Ayalon spoke about the crisis in the Israeli-US security relations
that emerged during his term in the wake of the US claim that Israel
withheld information on weapon deals it made with China. Ayalon
adopted the American claim.

"'Ayalon is talking nonsense,' Yaron said angrily last night. 'This is
how small and spineless people usually operate to make the Americans
like them, telling them what they think even if it is wrong and goes
against your state. I cannot recall a single instance when an American
did the same.' According to Yaron, 'I cannot remember such a grave
remark made by an official Israeli on this issue. I believe this is
not a private matter, but an interest of the State of Israel. This is
why I call on the foreign minister to clarify the matter. If
necessary, steps should be taken against the ambassador. He is a civil
servant and I cannot understand how he dared say such things. The
remarks he made in that interview constitute an extreme and
far-reaching interpretation, which is not the truth.'

("In reaction, Ayalon said last night: 'I would be the first to report
to any clarification summons on the issue, but I am certain that such
a clarification will not serve well those who ask for it.'")

(Description of Source: Tel Aviv Ma'ariv (Internet Version-WWW) in
Hebrew -- Independent, second-largest circulation Hebrew-language
paper; root URL on filing date: http://epaper.maariv.co.il/)