Iran sanctions and-- Jerusalem
Posted by Helena Cobban
September 27, 2009 2:35 PM EST | Link
Filed in Middle East , Obama presidency , Palestine 2009 , US foreign policy
As the Obama administration prepares for next Thursday's important P5+1 meeting with Iran, the prospects for mounting a successful sanctions campaign against Iran are being seriously undermined by the actions of the Israeli government and government-backed Jewish extremists in Jerusalem.
Today, Israeli police battled Muslim worshippers in the Haram al-Sharif (Noble Sanctuary; also known as the Temple Mount) after the worshipers tried to block the entrance into the Haram of a Jewish group of unclear intentions.
The situation of the 250,000 Palestinian residents of Israeli-occupied East Jerusalem has deteriorated rapidly in recent months, and has for some time been in imminent hazard of exploding.
The latest clash may be a spark that ignites much wider tensions between Israel and Palestinians who have become increasingly frustrated over the complete lack of progress in Obama's peace effort. One Hamas spokesman responded to the latest incident in Haram by calling on all Arabs and Muslims to "urgently act to save the holy Aqsa Mosque in occupied Jerusalem from repeated Zionist attempts to desecrate and control it."
But even if today's crisis is contained, the grave and continuing threats faced by the Jerusalem Palestinians, most of whom are Muslims, anyway threaten to undercut the western nations' ability to enroll into their anti-Iran effort the many Muslim neighbors of Iran whose cooperation is essential to the success of any stepped-up sanctions.
I was recently given that warning, in just about exactly those words, by a senior diplomat from a strongly pro-US Arab nation.
"It is Iran's neighbors who will have to implement most of the sanctions," this envoy said. "We can't do this if we are still arguing about Jerusalem."
... Yesterday, Iraqi President Jalal Talabani stated quite clearly he "did not think" sanctions would work. He was also adamant that, ""Iraq will never permit any country to use Iraqi land or sky in any war and any aggression." (HT: Paul Woodward.)
Iraq has a very lengthy land border with Iran.
And it's not just Arab countries. Yesterday, too, prime minister Rejep Tayyip Erdogan of Turkey, another Muslim country that shares a land border with Iran, urged caution about stepping up the sanctions on Iran. He said that sanctions "won't bring about anything good for the people (of Iran). So I think we have to be careful."
Turkey is currently a member if the Security Council and is emerging as a powerful actor throughout the whole Middle East.
Now, it is true that neither Talabani nor Erdogan expressly mentioned the situation in Jerusalem as contributing to their wariness regarding the anti-Iran campaign.
But if the western nations and the pro-US governments in the region want to make a convincing case for tightening the screws further on Iran then-- as the Arab envoy I talked to said quite clearly-- their ability to do so is significantly weakened so long as the Israeli governmental and non-governmental bodies continue their attacks on the Palestinian community and the Palestinian Muslims' sacred places in Jerusalem... And so long as the US government does nothing to rein in or punish Israel for those actions, which are highly prejudicial to the chances of the two-state peace to which Obama has said he is committed.
Information about the assaults that Jewish-extremist settler groups are making on the fabric and viability of Palestinian life in Jerusalem is readily available.
Haaretz's Nir Hasson tells us today that the settler group Ateret Cohanim recently announced in a brochure that it has six properties in the Old City to sell to 22 Jewish families, "which would bring the number of Jews living in the Arab quarters of the walled city to 1,000."
In line with the town-planning models in many Islamic cities, Jerusalem's walled Old City has for centuries had separate "quarters"-- almost literally laid out as four quarters-- designated for Jews, Christians, Muslims, and Armenians. Immediately after Israel conquer East Jerusalem in 1967, it evicted all non-Jews from the traditional Jewish quarter of the Old City, replacing them with Jews.
Now, as Hasson makes clear, the next step for the settler extremists-- in the Old City as in the newer (though often centuries-old) neighborhoods around it-- has been to implant settlers into the heart of very long-established Palestinian Christian and Muslim neighborhoods.
The Israeli organization Ir Amim ("City of the Peoples") has a lot of information about the situation of East Jerusalem on its website, and on the blog its supporters contribute to Huffington Post.
In one recent post there, Yizhar Be'er noted that the rightwing Jewish group Elad has been undertaking extremely incendiary excavations-- under the guise of "archeology"-- in extremely sensitive parts of the city including Silwan and the Old City:
- In several places, digs are being run just dozens of meters from the Al-Aqsa Mosque. Handing over the administrative keys to one of the most sensitive and volatile sites in the entire country, and possibly the world, to a political, extremist organization [like Elad] is akin to deciding to hand over the keys of the nuclear base in Dimona to Ahmedinejad and friends.
... Thousands of Jews identify with the movement to rebuild the Temple. They gather around Succoth in the national convention center and swear to "remove the abomination" (i.e. the holiest Muslim site in Jerusalem and one of the holiest sites of all of Islam) from the premises.
She held a meeting in New York yesterday with high-level representatives from the six GCC countries, Egypt, Iraq, and Jordan.
Assistant Secretary of State Jeffrey Feltman told reporters afterwards, "We don't want to have the perfect be the enemy of the good... We're not going to wait for the perfect package before we start negotiations."
Nobody's asking for perfection! But people everywhere who yearn for a decent and viable end to the Israel-Palestine conflict do want to see a modicum of fairness and even-handedness in the positions adopted by the US, which still aspires to the role of lead mediator of this tragic conflict.
Clinton reportedly told Reuters that the meeting with the nine Arab state reps had been "positive and productive."
Maybe she hadn't been listening to Saudi Arabia's foreign minister, Saud al-Faisal, when he said in his address to the General Assembly,
- Unfortunately, no real results or notable signs of progress have been achieved in spite of the commendable endeavors of the United States of America (and) the evident personal desire of President Barack Obama and his team to further the peace process...
If all of this international concern, all this international consensus and all these international endeavors have so far failed to induce Israel to honor the commitments to which it previously bound itself under the Road Map, how can we be optimistic?
The tunnelling by the Elad fanatics is unlikely to damage the Aqsa mosque, for the paradoxical reason that the platform wall built by Herod for the second temple, of which the Wailing Wall forms a part, is solid, and goes down to the bedrock. It cannot be bypassed.
An invasion of the Haram al-Sharif has to be a political act. Obviously, Israel can do this at any time, or permit fanatics to do it (but that is the same thing). Whether Netanyahu is ready to take this step is open to anyone's judgement.
The other plan mentioned by Yizhar Be'er of a tunnel by Elad from the Damascus Gate to the Dung Gate will certainly put in danger the stability of many medieval buildings. Including, by the way, the Holy Sepulchre. The reason is that the route can only follow the ancient Roman street, which passed in front of the Holy Sepulchre. I suspect this plan will not come to fruition.
On the Iranian front, my impression is that the present crisis will fizzle. Nothing has changed in the basic factors about an attack on Iran. No smoking gun has been found. More sanctions on Iran: so what's new?
What has been found would have been enough in 2003 to ramp up a war. Today, everyone is tired of pointless war. Then the US was in full vigour and ready for anything; now that energy has been dissipated.
I was really surprised yesterday when I read the comments on the (London) Times Online articles announcing the discovery of the Iranian installation. Usually, the Times' commenters are highly bellicose. In this case more than 90% were anti-war. The majority of Times' commenters are American; few are British.
Of course, as AIPAC controls the White House, it may be that the war will go ahead. If the threat of war is not credible, the US doesn't have much of a position.
This is the problem: it is all very nice for the pro-Israeli faction to infiltrate the seats of power, but if the policy proposed is way outside US interests, there is a chance that their credibility will break. So AIPAC will not go so far. And the crisis will fizzle.
The crisis a cover for something else? Not impossible, but we have yet to see.
What we have here is a very good example of a favoured party, Israel, being in possession of so much rope that it is hanging itself.
Logically this is a good time for Israel to make every effort to conciliate the forces of appeasement in the Arab and muslim worlds.
It would make sense, for example, not to be hounding the favouite candidate of the Mubarek regime from a, virtually powerless, figurehead post in UNESCO. But the bit is between the teeth of these fascist ultras: absolute victory is, they feel, within sight. So Egypt's goodwill is unimportant. America is rock solid.
And now, right in the middle of carefully choreographed propaganda offensive against Iran (it's those darned WMDs again, folks) in which all the plantation owners/sultans, of the Gulf statelets have been lined up, along with the NATO satellites and the media, yea even unto the Guardian, what do they do but mount a thoroughly idiotic show of force, outside the Holy Shrine of Al Aqsa?
Truly, as Abba Eban might have said, these revisionist Zionists never miss an opportunity to mess up an opportunity.
It is their one endearing trait.
It makes life very difficult for Quislings like Dahlan and Hariri, who are still trying to wrap their heads around the idea that the colons in Israel actually do believe (in surprisingly large numbers) that they have a God given right to steal Palestine. And are determined to build a Temple on the ruins of El Aqsa
I'm unclear here, Helena. Are you saying the Zionists should ease up a bit on their Arab captives, in order to further their cause of aggression against the Iranians? Is that what you're saying?
Surely I'm misreading this post.
1. The Earth to x line is tired Helena. Ask your handlers for new material.
2. Getting advice from the Saudis? How low can one get?
How come there was that famous report exonerating Iran by the intelligence community and now Obama, Zarco, and Brown paint a different picture, even Gates said today the conclusion is Iran is pursuing nuclear weapons? Some about face.
Pretty similar to the pomp in announcing the closure of Gitmo and now it turn out that these characters really belong in a Gitmo, reality is a strong force, specially when you are dealing with the P Loving Religion and its followers.
I am looking forward to the Oct 1 meeting with Iran, nothing will come out of it. Just imagine a Pirouz across the table. Nough said.
Funny. I appreciate a good sense of humor. :)
The recent clash in Jerusalem seems at the moment to be evidence not of a Jewish threat to the Islamic holy sites (which should be protected) but of the hostility of some Muslims to any Jewish presence, however passing, on Temple Mount.
A new question for bevin: I was less than thrilled by the candidacy of Mr. Hosni for UNESCO chief. Does that make me a fascist ultra? Last I knew, I was a registered Democrat who voted for Obama.
Exactly why do you support the banning of Jews from the holiest place in Judaism (the Temple Mount) and exactly why are you defending the exclusion of Jews from their holiest place?
"Today, Israeli police battled Muslim worshippers in the Haram al-Sharif (Noble Sanctuary; also known as the Temple Mount) after the worshipers tried to block the entrance into the Haram of a Jewish group of unclear intentions."
-Actually, Muslim fanatics stoned Jewish worshippers. This whole story is extremely one-sided.
Muslims literally practice aparteid (Israel generously gave the Islamic Waqf continued control of the Temple mount in 1967). Not only do the Islamic waqf deny any Jewish religious and historical links to Jerusalem in their official doctrines but they ban Jews (and Christians) from worshiping in Judaisms holiest shrine. Why are you defending this? They are also systematically destroying Jewish antiquities by illegally digging out a mosque underground. (see link)
http://www.jcpa.org/jl/vp483.htm
Isn't it enough that non-muslims are banned from Mecca? I can only imagine your outrage if Jews banned Muslims from a Muslim holy site in Israel. This is total and utter hypocricy and not fitting of your so-called liberal ideals. No matter what your view of the "West Bank" may be there is no justification for supporting the exclusion of Jews from the holiest site in Judaism.
Oh, and this a very respectful opinion piece to run on Yom Kippur!
Bronfman, Israel and its Jewish supporters consistantly bar Palestinians from worshiping at Haram elSharif. The last I looked, entry was barred to all men under the age of 55. Israel and its Jewish supporters constantly bar Palestinians from the old mosque in Hebron, where some believe that Abraham is buried. That policy started when an Israeli settler, Goldman, murdered about 40 Palestinians at worship there. So apparently Palestinians are barred to keep them from being murdered by Jewish colonists?
Israeli archaeology has a history of destroying Christian and Islamic artefacts. Israeli archaeologists have had no problem digging thru and destroying Islamic and Christian layers to reach some hopefully Jewish artefact. The Greek Orthodox church in Israel can fill you in on the details.
Incidentsally, I have always wondered why all this honor for Herod. He was a quisling for the Romans and had no problem murdering uncoopertive Jews, to the tune of crucifying some 5 000 of them at one time. Is that the best you can do?
Kassandra; Entry of ALL jews is banned by the waqf. Why don't you protest this? Israel does not control the Temple Mount it is controlled by the Islamic Waqf which bans all non-Muslims from worshiping.
This is the typical response by apologists for fundamentalist Islam the response of "....oh but christians were bad during the crusades etc". Two wrongs never make a right. This does not compare to an age restriction to prevent exactly what happened today (eg Muslims stoning Jews esp. at the Western Wall). Why can't you just reject the banning of ALL jews from their holiest place without qualifying it? As I said All Jews are banned from S'audia Arabia and all non-Muslims are banned from Mecca but right now we're talking about the Temple Mount.
Pleaser give me some specific examples of Israel destroying Christian/Islamic artifacts?
Herod has nothing to do with this.
Actually, Steve, the last time I looked, the notices on the gates of the Haram that banned Jews from entering were issued in the name of the Israeli rabbinate on the grounds that it's heretical for Jews to go there before the restoration of the Temple. It's in regard to the plans of Elad and its ilk to bring about the restoration of the Temple that many, many people are concerned about the ongoing excavations in the vicinity of-- and under-- the Haram.
Alex, I'm glad to hear about the sturdiness of the foundations under the Haram. But there have been stables, etc, inside there in the past, no?
Whilst this is true (that Most Rabbis don't like Jews to go to the Temple mount until the coming for the Messiah) you know very well that this is not the reason the Islamic Waqf bans Jews. It also has nothing to do with Muslim fundamentalists stoning Jewish worshipers (who presumably disagree with the Israeli Rabbinate) when they choose to pray at the holiest site in Judaism, and has nothing to do with your support of the banning of Jews from the Temple Mount.
Let me ask you question;
Should Jews have equal access to the Temple mount as Muslims?
"Entry of ALL jews is banned by the waqf."
Since when? The last I knew, Al Haram Al Sharif was open to visitors and tourists. When someone tries to enter what measures do they take to differentiate the Jews from the non-Jews?
Helena, it is the wall around the outside which is solid. The Elad cannot dig a tunnel in from the outside underneath the Aqsa mosque.
Yes, there are underground vaults next to al-Aqsa which are called Solomon's Stables. The date I forget, maybe Crusader.
But pretty much everything is rickety; there are severe earthquakes every century or two, and everything gets shaken up.
Bronfman, Jewish tourists that are not obvious terrorists do have access to Al Haram Al Sharif. I visited Al Haram Al Sharif a couple of years ago, noone stopped me. Apparently Shirin did also. Why do Palestinian men have to be over 55 years old to worship there, and then with a special pass?
Re destruction of Palestinian, Islamic and Christian sites:
http://occupiedoxford.wordpress.com/2009/02/02/israels-destruction-of-gaza-cultural-heritage/
"The Destruction of Memory" by Robert Bevoir
". . . the April 2002 incursion into Nablus saw one of the largest single acts of destruction of Palestinian heritage since the creation of Israel. . . their history was being deliberately destroyed to undermine their sense of identity and diminish their claim to the land. . ."
"From the Holy Mountain" by William Dalrymple details his discussions with Greek Orthodox priests and Palestinians about the destruction of their heritage. A great book, a great author, worth reading.
http://www.jerusalemites.org/crimes/crimes_against_christianity/27.htm
There are many more references and examples.
How is progress on that Holocaust Memorial Museum coming along on the site of a destroyed Palestinian cemetery?
kassandra;
Visting and praying are 2 different things.
So, steve bronfman, are you now admitting you were flatly lying when you wrote "Entry of ALL jews is banned by the waqf." Did you really think you could get away with that in this particular group?
Oh my, and here is another bold faced lie from you: "All Jews are banned from S'audia Arabia (sic)." Sorry I missed it the first time around.
What other lies and nonsense have you got for us?
Oh - and even Benny Morris has described the destruction and desecration of Muslim and Christian sites i n 1948, including mosques, churches, and cemeteries, and it didn't stop in 1948. It has gone on pretty much continuously inside and outside the green line. I am reminded that the construction of Har Homa, among other things, involved the destruction of Christian sites.
AFP reports that the violence started when a group of tourists entered the Temple Mount. Israeli police described them as French tourists, but the Palestinians said they were Jewish religious extremists. Thepeoplesvoice.org said that they were "zealots" who were performing "Talmudic rituals" on the mount. I can't see that either motive would justify violence.
The restrictions imposed on Palestinian men under 50 entering the Haram al-Sharif are described as security measures, taken to reduce the risks of rioting, including the kind in which stones get thrown down onto the plaza by the Western Wall.
I'm sure the correspondent for the "People's Voice" is an expert on Talmudic ritual and definitely knows one when he sees it; I, however, am far less informed regarding Judaism, and wonder if the Talmud, written some time after the destruction of the Temple by the Romans, actually does describe rituals to be performed on the Temple Mount.
So Deric, All Palestinian men (and apparently not only men) under 50 are a "security risk"? Is that why the IDF shoots children at point-blank range? Is that why women holding white flags are gunned down?
The KKK terrorised and killed Blacks in the South for "security" purposes, as they said. The apartheid regime in South Africa did the same. Do you see the similarities?
After being an observer of the IDF and the colonists it protects for many years, I have come to the conclusion that the Uzi machine gun must be an important part of the Talmudic ritual.
My two cents.
My understanding of the ban on Jews praying on the Temple Mount by the Israeli Rabbinate was that somewhere on the Temple Mount, no one knows where, is a place called the "Holy of Holies" where only the most high Rabbi can pray. Since no one knows where this Holy of Holies is, Jews are banned from praying so as not to accidentially pray there. My impression however is that this reason is just a justification for banning Jews from praying which would be an obvious incitement against the moslems. It would constantly cause a security risk.
This parallels the ban on moslems over 55, not being hot headed youths they are less likely to riot.
Neither is good, but they are workable solutions.
This discussion illustrates one of the big problems. How can a piece of dirt be holy? When was God a real estate agent? Perhaps one needs peace and quiet and maybe even a certain atmosphere to engage in some types of communication with God, but a certain piece of dirt? I don't think so. Hard to believe that in the 21st century there are still people willing to kill, die and inflict misery on others in the name of some religious dogma. Realistically, dirt is dirt and one piece is just as good as another - unless it happens to have an aquifer under it. Stealing the Palestinians water is what the West Bank settlements is about. Those in power in Israel cynically stoke the religious fervor of their people (as do the Arabs) for their own gain in power and wealth. And year after year, the average person on both sides falls for it.
Jack, not quite sure what is your point but if someone believes that God created the earth, then wouldn't all dirt be Holy by definition.
People believe what they believe. There is no logic to it.
kassandra, I carefully said "are described as security measures," not "are justifiable security measures." I don't know if men under 50 are excluded all the time, or only at times when the Israeli police think the risk of rioting is higher than normal. In a better world, there would be no exclusion of men under 50, no risk of stones being thrown down onto the plaza by the Western Wall, and no demagogic appeals to defend the mosques from nonexistent or greatly exaggerated threats. (Yes, there are dangerous Jewish crazies who want to destroy the Muslim holy sites on Temple Mount, but my sense is that Palestinians have been repeatedly told that mainstream Zionism is a threat to the mosques, which I do not believe is true.)
David, I think the Holy of Holies can only be entered by a temple priest (as opposed to a mere rabbi), who first must be purified with the ashes of a red heifer. Or some such. It's very complicated!
Jack, earth can become holy in more than one way. When I visited the Gettysburg battlefield last year I wasn't thinking about God, but I didn't feel as if I was walking on normal dirt, either. Such is the power of history on people's minds. If Sharon had heeded the rabbis, he would never have gone on the Temple Mount in 2000; I think he went there more because of history than because of God.
By the way, can you tell me which Israeli prime ministers have stoked religious (as opposed to nationalistic) fervor?
Derick Schilling,
You are right there is a name for the one person who could enter the Holy of Holies, I don't remember the title. And yes, there was a ceremony prior to it.
If memory serves these things are described in the bible. If I knew exactly where I would have looked it up prior to my post.
"I'd rather a Palestinian train as a fighter pilot than a tour guide."Moshe Dayan, Israel's celebrated former Minister of Defence, and amateur archaeologist
My answers to kassandra were never published I tried 3 times
1. Jews are banned from worship by the Islamic Waqf at the Temple Mount;
"The Temple Mount was reopened to non-Muslims in August 2003. It remains open, but only Sundays through Thursdays, 7:30 a.m. to 10 a.m. and 12:30 p.m. to 1:30 p.m., and not on any Christian, Jewish or Muslim holidays or other days considered "sensitive" by the Waqf.
During "open" days, Jews and Christian are allowed to ascend the Mount, usually through organized tours and only if they conform first to a strict set of guidelines, which includes demands that they not pray or bring any "holy objects" to the site. Visitors are banned from entering any of the mosques without direct Waqf permission. Rules are enforced by Waqf agents, who watch tours closely and alert nearby Israeli police to any breaking of their guidelines."
2. Jews are banned from S'audi Arabia, 2004 S'audi Govt website stated;
"Visas will not be issued for the following groups of people:
* An Israeli passport holder or a passport that has an Israeli arrival/departure stamp.
* Those who don't abide by the Saudi traditions concerning appearance and behaviors. Those under the influence of alcohol will not be permitted into the Kingdom.
* There are certain regulations for pilgrims and you should contact the consulate for more information.
* Jewish People"
Sources;
1. Jews not allowed to worship at Temple Mount by Muslim Waqf;
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=111253
Which stated, contrary to Helena's propaganda;
"JERUSALEM – The Palestinian Authority was behind violent clashes on the Temple Mount today that left 24 people wounded hours before the start of the Jewish holiday of Yom Kippur, according to both Israeli security sources and a source inside the PA.
Earlier today, clashes between Israeli police and Palestinian worshipers erupted at the Temple Mount and at several sites throughout Jerusalem's Old City.
The incidents reportedly took place just as a group of Jewish visitors ascended the Mount –the holiest site in Judaism.
Much of the Palestinian news media is claiming the Jewish worshipers were right-wing Israeli extremists who ascended the Mount to threaten the site. In actuality, many of the Jewish dozen or so visitors today were tourists and were part of a guided group that regularly ascends the Mount during daily hours when Jewish visitors are permitted"
Please also see;
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1253820682552&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FPrinter
Which states;
"Israel has scrupulously upheld Muslim worship at the Aksa Mosque, which was built just off the supposed site of the Temples, even when the site has been used to stone Jewish worshipers at the Western Wall and sermons are delivered calling for the demise of Israel and the US. Nor have Muslim prayer services been banned even in the worst periods of Arab terror attacks. During the just-completed Ramadan, hundreds of thousands of Arabs prayed at al-Aksa and held nighttime picnics on the Temple Mount breaking their fast. The garbage and leftover food items we saw strewn over the Temple Mount during our visit was appalling.
But in glaring contrast, Israel has, for the past 43 years, failed to challenge the Muslim ban on Jewish worship on the Temple Mount. On our visit, the number of Jews allowed up at one time was severely limited, we were checked for any religious items, which cannot be brought onto the Temple Mount by a Jew, and we were warned by the police not to even whisper a prayer. "
2. Jews banned from S'audi Arabia;
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/arabs/saudiban.html
Oh, and before Kassandra tells me "World Net Daily" is part of some "Zionist media conspiracy" I should point out its founder Joseph Farah is an Arab.
Comment from... Salah, at September 30, 2009 07:13 AM:
"I'd rather a Palestinian train as a fighter pilot than a tour guide."
Moshe Dayan, Israel's celebrated former Minister of Defence, and amateur archaeologist
-If you google the quote the only articles I can find containing it are from the BBC which states its "possibly apocryphal."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8076772.stm
Its not listed in other lists of quotations by him eg;
http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/m/moshe_dayan.html
Oh, and Shirin....regarding Israels treatment of Christians it should be pointed out that Israel is the ONLY country in the middle east with a growing christian population. Simple google "christians under the PA" to see how the christians are doing under Palestinian Rule.
Bronfman, looks like you are trying a diversionary tactic, otherwise why would you be trying to change the subject? We were not discussing the treatment of Christians in Israel or anywhere else, we were discussing Israel's well-documented destruction and desecration of Christian holy and historical sites. So, let's talk more about that, shall we?
But since you DID bring up Christian Palestinians living under Israeli occupation, you might want to ask them how they feel about the treatment they get from Israel. And if Israel's Christian population is increasing, I guess that makes them part of that awful "demographic time bomb" that will have to be dealt with eventually as a threat the "Jewish character" of the state.
Shall we compare israels treatment of minorities with muslim states? Ok, why isn't the Bahai temple in Iran not israel? Gee, I wonder???? On any test of freedom Israel far outranks Muslim states in this regard. Hamas just made gaza sharia so Christians will have to pay jizra tax. Google it.
Not only have we proven Helena wrong about this incident, which she quoted Hamas spokesman, but not israel sources. I would like her to condemn the destruction of joseph's tomb by a Palestinian mob in 2000 while PA police watched and did nothing.
Bronfman, shall we stick to the topic of Israeli desecration of Christian and Muslim holy and historic sites and stop trying these diversionary tactics?
Surely Turkeys treatment of the Kurds equally prevents the Muslims taking action on Iran?
Woops, I forgot Syria and Iran also occupy Kurdistan and suppress Kurdish culture. I'm waiting for Helena's defense of the Kurds (and article on morocco's brutal occupation of Western Sahara). Interesting "liberals" like Helena ignore the misery of the Kurds.
No sorry. If you genuinely cared about the plight of Christians in the middle east you wouldn't limit the discussion to Israel. You are obviously more concerned with bashing israel than really standing up for the rights of Christians in the region.
Helena, have you read the Hamas charter? The organisation you quote from calls for the murder of all Jews (regardless of nationality). Do you only support genocidal organizations when Jews are their targets?
read the Hamas charter?
The Likud charter from 1999 as available on www.knesset.gov.il says:
The Jewish communities in Judea, Samaria and Gaza are the realization of Zionist values. Settlement of the land is a clear expression of the unassailable right of the Jewish people to the Land of Israel and constitutes an important asset in the defense of the vital interests of the State of Israel. The Likud will continue to strengthen and develop these communities and will prevent their uprooting.
...
The Government of Israel flatly rejects the establishment of a Palestinian Arab state west of the Jordan river.
"I'm unclear here, Helena. Are you saying the Zionists should ease up a bit on their Arab captives, in order to further their cause of aggression against the Iranians? Is that what you're saying?"
Yes, this is precisely what Helena is saying, and it is warmongering, pure and simple. It is warmongering.
"I'm unclear here, Helena. Are you saying the Zionists should ease up a bit on their Arab captives, in order to further their cause of aggression against the Iranians? Is that what you're saying?"
Yes, this is precisely what Helena is saying, and it is warmongering, pure and simple. It is warmongering.