Imshin on disengagement


Posted by Helena Cobban
August 14, 2005 1:15 PM EST | Link
Filed in Linkees

Imshin, the author of the "Not a fish" blog from Israel, has been posting some interesting reflections on the Israeli disengagement from Gaza.

In this Aug 12 post she expresses her support for the rule of law in Israel:

    I am neither orange or blue. I think it is too late for flying colors. It is no longer relevant. My personal view has long been that leaving Gaza was always inevitable, but I did feel that the question of timing was important. There are pros and cons to leaving Gaza at this particular time.

    But what I think is no longer relevant, it has been decided.

    The stand I am taking is in support of the rule of law, in support of the sovereignty of the State of Israel. The decision was made by a democratically elected government with the support of an also democratically elected legislator. The only important question now, in my opinion, is who rules the country – the government or groups of hooligans with no respect for the law.

She also presents (here) her own translation of an intriguing-looking article in the weekend edition of Ma'ariv. The author of the piece, Bambi Sheleg, is apparently a longtime member/supporter of the National Religious Party; and in the article she was doing an apparently significant mea culpa.

Sheleg wrote that after the 1973 war the religious-Zionist camp became much stronger. Not least because the traditionally secular Zionist leaderships (both Labor and Likud, I'm assuming) had been so discredited, and lost so much of their former self-confidence, because of the ability the Arab states had shown in achieving strategic surprise at the start of that war...

[Imshin's translation gratefully used here]:

    Thus began, in fact, the great inner disengagement of the Religious Zionism. This disengagement had many facets: On the one hand it strengthened our sector in Israeli public life in a really amazing way. We built splendid communities, large families, our people became involved in all the life systems in Israel: In the academia, in the media, in the army, in politics, everywhere. Our various education systems … became much stronger, because they received far more funding than the regular state education system and because so many of us regarded and continue to regard the issue of education as of premier importance.

    […]

    But this isolating of ourselves, along with a deep inner feeling of justness that neither requests nor needs outside confirmation, blinded many of us. We feel that the Israeli world outside of our communities is gradually losing its humanity…

Actually, I'd say it was not only the religious Zionists in recent times who started acting from, "a deep inner feeling of justness that neither requests nor needs outside confirmation", or who started to feel that the "world outside of our communities is gradually losing its humanity." I think that's also a very apt description of the way many US citizens came over the past 15 years to view their own relationship with the rest of the world.

Later on, Sheleg writes:

    While we were busy settling Eretz Yisrael and taking care of our seemingly more value-filled identity, which was different from that of everyone else, terrible things were occurring here: There are a million and a half poor people in Israeli society, most of whom do not belong to our rank and file. We looked after our own, didn’t we? The beautiful settlements we built; the gigantic, ostentatious houses in so many of them, all these seem to us like something we deserve. While our education system flourished, and we made sure our children got more and more study hours, there was no one to look after the other children. We strengthened (our education systems) and neglected all the other education systems, even when we controlled the Ministry of Education. We behaved like an interested sector, and not like a worthy leadership for a society.
Again: the US and the world... But still, Sheleg's appraisal is also, certainly, interesting as a self-criticism of the religious-Zionist movement.

I think the meta-story that she's writing about is the fact that the great bulk of the non-religious Jews-- from the left but also from the right-- have not supported the call of the religious to support the continuation of the Gaza settlements. But she sums up: "“Well, many of us are its best sons, but we betrayed our society first. In all innocence. Out of true idealism. But also out of conceit. We disengaged first.”

For her part, in this Aug 12 post, Imshin has a great little reminiscence about her time serving in the IDF reserve in Gaza in the mid-1980s:

    I don’t think the Jewish settlers in Gaza think about demographics much, but that was very much on my mind when I did reserve duty near the Palestinian town of Han Yunis and the Israeli village [i.e. settlement] of Neve Dkalim in the mid-eighties. We came by way of Rafah and the sight of all those people, hundreds of them just hanging about in groups in the middle of the day, along with the visible poverty and squalor, left a lasting impression on me. Coming from there straight to the relative luxury of Neve Dkalim offended my youthful sense of justice.
Two quick comments there. First, Imshin, why do you seem to distance yourself from your "youthful" sense of justice? Why not recognize that it was authentic and valuable? Why not affirm a reconnection to it?

Second, though in this post Imshin seems to be talking mainly about "demographics", it actually seems to me that she is talking more about simple human justice and fairness. Great. Justice, and human equality, and how to operationalize these core values in a complex world, are things we can all talk about together. By contrast, "demographics", when considered in intra-Israeli discourse, is nearly always a code-word for some form of "Chosen People" feeling or outright anti-Arab racism...

So yes, Imshin, please do reconnect with your "youthful" sense that Palestinian people might be entitled to just as much dignity and human respect as Jewish people. Then we can all talk together.



Comments
Comment from... NotHelena, at August 14, 2005 06:07 PM:

Yes, Imshin, remember that you have NO right to be concerned with "demographics." Because despite my sophistry, I still in fact to refuse to accept the legitimacy of your Jewish state. You of course know that I cannot praise any Israeli except for Ilan Pappe or his ilk except in the most backhanded manner. The only acceptable discourse is that which makes you acknowledge that you're a racist and that you are responsible, as opposed to those pretty little boys who strap bombs to their chests in an attempt to kill you.

Comment from... Inkan1969, at August 14, 2005 08:43 PM:

Brother, trolls try the silliest gimmicks...

Comment from... WmPeele, at August 14, 2005 10:33 PM:

"Demographics" is at the heart of not just the Israel/Palestine conflict but is of growing significance in contemporary Europe as well...note the following article ("An Islamic Alienation" by David Rieff) from today's New York Times magazine:

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/14/magazine/WLN111159.html

an excerpt:

"The reality is that a Europe in demographic freefall needs more, not fewer, immigrants if it is to maintain its prosperity. Tony Blair just proposed new laws allowing the deportation of radical mullahs and the shutting of mosques and other sites associated with Islamic extremism. But given the sheer size of the Muslim population in England and throughout the rest of Europe, the security services are always going to be playing catch-up."

Comment from... Dominic, at August 15, 2005 03:55 AM:

Peele, this thing of "given the sheer size of the Muslim population in England and throughout the rest of Europe, the security services are always going to be playing catch-up" is only another example of the use of "demographics" as code for racism. What, actually, has the size of the Muslim population got to do with security? Nothing at all.

Tony Blair and the NYT are both attempting to place the minor above the major and deny the truth, which is that the immigrant population is not tribal or feudal but proletarian and bourgeois just like the other citizens of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. This condition is exactly what the immigrants have voted with their feet for. The "security services" have no part in it at all.

I have read the NYT article. It makes me angry against the author and the paper and anyone who wnats to spread such racism.

Comment from... WmPeele, at August 15, 2005 12:50 PM:

"the immigrant population...[in Europe]... is not tribal or feudal but proletarian and bourgeois just like the other citizens..."

no doubt most are...but try and explain that to the family of the assasinated Dutch filmmaker or of the train commuters in Madrid and London...for whatever reason, some of the immigrants have contempt for European values and pose an internal threat...sad but true!

Comment from... Dominic, at August 15, 2005 02:48 PM:

Peele, this may be news to you, but the nature of the immigration into England at least has been endlessly debated for decades. Have you ever heard of Enoch Powell and his "Rivers of Blood" speech. Have you heard of the Broadwater Farm riot?

'They created Winston Silcott, the beast of Broadwater Farm. And they won't let this creation lie down and die'

This was said by Silcott, a black man who was eventually released after being railroaded into a wrongful conviction and long sentence, only overturned years later. Said after his release, mind.

See http://observer.guardian.co.uk/race/story/0,11255,1125536,00.html

There's nothing new under the sun, mate.

Comment from... WmPoole, at August 15, 2005 10:48 PM:

you are entitled to your opinion, but one cannot wish this problem away easily...widely divergent fertility rates of natives and immigrants, jihadist extremism, contempt for host country values on the part of Islamist agitators, alienated and impressionable youth (altho a tiny minority but it takes only a few "martyrs" to wreak havoc in open, liberal societies like the Netherlands and UK) have all contributed to a situation that is alarming by any measure.

Comment from... Dominic, at August 15, 2005 11:57 PM:

Peele! For heaven's sake, man! "Alarming by any measure... fertility rates... extremism... contempt..."

You are in danger of setting up another Winston Silcott, or many of them. Yours is the ideology of Abu Ghraib, Bagram, and Gitmo.

You are irrational and you are long-winded. And insecure, of course. You are also at the end of the line. When your crowd gets down to this level, there is nothing left for afters. Your credibility is blown.

Especially, the kids don't buy it, because they know the black kids and the Muslim kids much better than you do, and they don't have that insecurity of yours.

Comment from... WmPeele, at August 16, 2005 01:24 AM:

yes, among the negative, unfortunate consequences of these developments are the unfair stigmatizing of the largely peaceful EuroMuslim population and creating opportunities for the Le Pens, Haiders and other far-right demagogues...remember that Le Pen, like John Kerry, came in SECOND in the most recent presidential race in his country.

Comment from... Charles Murn, at August 16, 2005 08:22 PM:

Some of these comments lament, and others embrace, what is simply otherwise referred to as class warfare in the US. The basic battle, albeit with cultural overtones at times (when they avail themselves), is the poor against the affluent or richer. In some real sense, and I saw this living in India, as well, not so long ago, is that radical Islam is one of the few ideologies in the post-Communism (with a capital "C") world that fights for the rights and interests of the poor. The fact of the matter is, as I have put it in other contexts before, the terrorists literally have nothing to live for, so they find something to die for. That, I think, is perhaps the best definition possible for who is a "revolutionary." Whether we like it or not, radical Islam is the last best hope (for now) of the totally down and out and those who otherwise despise their oppression by the institutions of the day. Until the West (by which I mean institutions as well as voting populations) regains its apprehension of this fact, it will continue to mistake its way into advancing the cause of the Islamic extremists.

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