Anti-Sunni revenge killings in Iraq?
At the bottom of Philip Giraldi's piece in the August 1 American Conservative is this item:
- There is increasing evidence that the Iraqi police forces, now under Shi’ite control, are carrying out systematic revenge killings against Sunnis in Baghdad. The bodies now showing up at the morgue have obvious signs of handcuffing and blindfolding and evidence of being tortured before death. U.S. sources indicate that the suspicious killings have reached the rate of almost 700 per month. The police are supervised by the Shi’ite-run Ministry of Interior, which claims that the killings are being carried out by insurgents wearing stolen police uniforms. But American intelligence sources disagree, noting that many of the killers appear to be actual policemen carrying the expensive standard-issue Glock automatics and driving official Toyota Land Cruisers.
Plus, in the case of a report like this one, I think US policymakers still have a strong objective interest in promoting a policy of "divide and rule" amongst Iraqis, and this report seems almost exactly to fit into the type of "black propaganda" that might be disseminated by such a policy.
Not that Giraldi is necessarily a knowing diessminator of black propaganda. But it seems the people he is relying on as sources in most of his writings are still-serving CIA officers...
So I'd love to know if anyone else out there has any reports of the current Ministry of the Interior carrying out systematic revenge killings against Sunnis in Baghdad on anything like this scale? I've seen nothing on the websites of either Human Rights Watch or Amnesty International in this vein (though some on both sites about abuses in Iraqi-run as well as US-run detention centers in Iraq.)
Of course, it's very hard for researchers from the rights organizations to get out and about in Iraq, too. So the fact they don't report systematic anti-Sunni revenge killings doesn't mean they haven't happened.
But "almost 700" killings of this sort per month? You'd have to think some credible, non-CIA source out there would also be reporting this, if true?
Plus, Ayatollah Sistani, Moqtada Sadr, and a number of other Shiite community leaders with substantial followings have been very vocally out there, repeatedly urging Shiite restraint in the face of the terrible, terrible provocations from Zarkawi and other presumed Sunni militants.
The largest-scale anti-Sunni revenge killing that I've found a reference to-- in an admittedly quick search on English-language Google-- is this July 5 report by the NYT's Sabrina Tavernise...
She writes of some very nasty anti-Sunni killings that have taken place in northeastern Baghdad -- totalling 26 killings since late March. And, in another part of her report, a reference to "more than two dozen bodies" being found in the same area over the past two months.
Maybe these are references to the bodies of the same individuals? But even if not, some 50 anti-Sunni revenge killings over four months is very different from "almost 700 a month".
The suspicion there was that Moqtada's Mahdi Army had been responsible. But Moqtada's people hotly denied it...
So readers, who knows of any other good references out there on the question of the extent of and the responsibility for anti-Sunni revenge killings in Iraq?
Read Faiza's last post: "http://afamilyinbaghdad.blogspot.com/2005_07_24_afamilyinbaghdad_archive.html#112231967469111648".
See also André Brie, a former menber of the german parliament (in german): "http://www.freitag.de/2005/30/05300101.php". He says after a visit to Bagdad that 160 military aviators hve been killed because of their role in the iraq-iran war.
If you read Giraldi's piece carefully you will find that he talks about 700 suspicious killings per month in Baghdad, not iraq.
You could find occasional repots of revenge killings against baathists since summer 2003, e. g. by Juan Cole (www.juancole.com/2003/12/wave-of-assassinations-against.html), but it was never a point of interest and therefore not subject to any serious investigation, neither by the press, nor by the police or american troops.
The Mahdi Army got last year weapons, munition and instructors from the resistance, why should he kill them. But everybody knows that the ministry of interior is run by SCIRI/Badr corps.
Freedom is on the march!
Those corpses are "freedom bodies"!
"But everybody knows that the ministry of interior is run by SCIRI/Badr corps."
Sulag, He is Iraqi/Iranian he was working in Damascus in woman trading this is common Iranian type of business that Iran did in Iraq , Lebanon (south), Syria, Gulf countries, they sent women to those countries used them as a seed for there dirty working coming future. It’s like cancer in the society they speak and dressed same but they are Iranian believes and brain washed.
I read that Iran last year established a Rest Home for kids they lost there families in Basra they claming for Iraqi kids, but some resources said this is in fact Iranian business they brought Iranian lost or unwanted kids brought to this Rest Home in Basra as these kids taught the poisons of Mullah.
In Iran as news cam last year, there is a major problem of babies and kids born from unwanted sex relation not by mirage some Mullah announced or agrees to established what they call it (Restrooms) these around the cites specially in Tehran for men and women looking for SEX (Exactly like in any Western courtiers) this demand came after a lot of problem from criminals, unwanted bay and the rest of it (there were some articles in Asharq Awasate newspaper about that at a time).
It would be very interesting if there is any Iranian can give us more details about this.
These Mullah used to link this act to Islam but its not those Mullah are SEX Machines.
I recall that in Babylon early 1970s there were few Iranian overstayers in the town, at that time the government targeting them to send them back to Iran. I heard by a friend that few houses they went to found 5 to 7 women in the house when they asking why they are in this house thy replays he is the guardian to them! In fact he lives with them like multi wives.
What we see in Iraq Bader Militia its Iranian body they created, the Iraqi POW suffered a huge damage (mentally mainly) by these guys. I keep wondering if US admin and US official knew, why then bring them on. From home these guys got power to service? Why this group which every single Iraqi hate them and millions of Iraqi family affected by there acts during Iraq/Iran war, is this American deliberately used them?
The question still why these Guys free to do this killing?
By the way just yesterday there is a report same thing in Basra south, Iraqi saying they will be killed if they talk or make any comments.
Salah- Do you believe the US is responsible for inciting this sectarian violence as part of a "divide and conquer" strategy, or do you think it is just a result of the power vacuum? I'm not sure myself and would be interested in your views.
My talking about Iraq/Iranians or Iran, this isn't means I am racist or heated some one due to his colour or origin, but things in Iraq quite different.
The West accepted immigrants all sorts, they granted them their citizenship this done with believe in human right and freedom, In Iraq things different.
The Iraqi/Iranian (not all of them) not working for Iraq as Iraqis citizens, but they worked to gain power rule the country as part of Iran, this is against the will of majority of Iraqi, this isn't happened any where in the world.
I did ask these guys (Bader militias) they are violence and killers and every Iraqi knew them, but why US trusted them? US needs force to control Iraq there were Iraqi Army they can help, why US not tried to use them?
Join C, I don’t have any prove that “US is responsible for inciting this sectarian violence as part of a "divide and conquer” but as far as can say the above questions. But I agree with you these guys (Bader militias) and others defiantly benefited of the power vacuum.
If you have answers, I am interested to hear from you.
I don't have any answers, Salah. I don't know much about how deep the animosity really is between Sunnis and Shiites in Iraq, and I don't trust what I read in the English language press. I have stopped trying to figure out what the U.S. "strategy" is in Iraq, because I have concluded there is none. I think the Bush people are just trying to get as much of their domestic political agenda enacted as possible before the whole fiasco in Iraq collapses around them. And they're doing pretty well at it lately (the domestic agenda, that is).
"Salah. I don't know much about how deep the animosity really is between Sunnis and Shiites in Iraq"
John C, there is nothing between them, in old days, this is during 1970s, we were in the university (BTW, the universities is mixture male female even in Class, and our friends also mixture this is ordinary in Iraq since 19950s), if some one speak about these things (Sunni Shiiat groups or things) most of us will be surprised or look to him shamefully, we were Kurds Arab, Sunni Shiites no differences.
This is can be found in large scale on the streets and towns. As I understand you or others (in US or Europe) they think there is streets or cities just for Sunni or Shiiat nothing of this on the ground.
I lived in Babylon in the street were our home from one side Sunni neighbor, the other side is Shiiat neighbor, across the road were Christian neighbor, after a few years one of the neighbors moved and a new neighbor they were (Mindaieen, or Subah) (you need to read about them to know more, they are not Muslims).
This in large the living style around Iraq, Yes there are differences in the percentage of Sunni more their or the number of Shiiat their same for Kurds.
As a families structures it’s the same it’s a mixture of married between Sunni Shiiat and Kurds.
The civil war more unlikely in Iraq even we heard from many US officials they predicted or other parties in Iraq may be some they tried to fueled this hopefully not.
Three years passed nothing happened not like Lebanon or Yugoslavia it took few months or weeks to burned every things their.
700 or 800 violent deaths at the Baghdad morgue has been a relatively consistent number for bad months for a while. The cause is highly varied, including massive crime, it also includes Shiite killed by Sunni.
However there are consistent and increased reports of Sunni killed frequently by elite units.
I doubt if any in the American system want civil war, elements of the insurgents are trying for it. The situation would be impossible to control and could inflame the middle east. The US could be caught in the middle.
Simply recall the American sponsored death squads of Cenral America particularly el Savadore and how the US Marines set up the Nicaraguan National Guard who in turn murdered Sandino and you will get a pretty good feel of what the current administration is up to in Iraq and just who is ultimately behind the mysterious murders.
"Good feel of what the current administration is up to in Iraq and just who is ultimately behind the mysterious murders."
I don’t like some folks tell me I am believing in conspiracy theories as few think but this is a link which tell a bit of US administration that support your view Earl.
The Way of the Commandos
http://www.occupationwatch.org/headlines/archives/2005/05/the_way_of_the.html
Salah,
I agree completely with your last post, and would add that all if Iraq's major Arab tribes are mixed Sunni and Shi`a, as are most of the smaller one. From what I understand the same is true of the Kurdish tribes, though honestly I never cared enough about that question to inquire.
Special Correspondent (who left Iraq a few days ago and is incommunicado at the moment, except via a mutual friend where he is now) had a lovely long conversation recently with one of his elderly uncles who was a member of the Iraqi Parliament in the early decades of the State. He asked him about relations between Kurds and Arabs and Sunni and Shi`a in those days, and his uncle told him there was no Kurd or Arab or Sunni or Shi`a, there was only Iraqi. Thst is still true, I believe, for most Iraqis at least in day to day contact.
Shirin,
Bremer with his poisonous plan used and introduced these differences and the western media and propaganda follow suite.
With regret I feel in the west that the people (majority) driven by this media even without thinking.
In fact there society more divisive than ours, we are same tribes with same blood in our veins, this is the thing US, Bremer and other can not understand.
Or history told us, this is not first time Iraq distraction its one of many during last 5000 years but Iraq still their and the wealth their oil wells in Iraq, so let them dream.
Just today, her we go
"British forces believe a new wave of guerrilla attacks in southern Iraq is being supplied and backed from Iran."
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/article302718.ece
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