'Just World News' with Helena Cobban

Interview with Iyad Moussawi, translated

On a Comments board here last week, one commenter referred to an interview Sayyid Iyad Moussawi (or, in French, Ayad Moussawi) gave to Le Monde's Baghdad correspondent, last Thursday (8/26).

Well now, a JWN reader has taken up my invitation to translate the whole interview. Here it is. Big thanks to the friend who sent it!

The interview is now a little outdated, given the torrent of events sparked by Ayatollah Ali Sistani's bold, peaceful initiative. But it provides a glimpse into the thinking of someone well placed in Sistani's entourage. Cécile Hennion, the interviewer, describes Moussawi as:

the head of the Constitutional and Political Union of the Seyyeds (the descendants of the Prophet) and the Tribal Chiefs in Iraq; he is also a member of the Marjaya (the hightest Shiites authority) and close to Grand Ayatollah Ali Al-Sistani. Put under house arrest and arrested several times under Saddam Hussein's regime, he never left Iraq. He was also among the clerics who negotiated the Najaf truce in June.

The things I found most interesting in the interview were the harshness of the criticism Moussawi expressed about the Allawi government, and the way he described what I'd call the "intentional nonviolence" of the march that Sistani planned to make. First, on the Allawi government:

One reason for the chaos lies in the composition of the actual government, made up of Iraqis who had fled Saddam Hussein?s regime and who came back with the Americans. Our brothers from the outside ignore the sufferings, the problems, the needs and the wishes of the Iraqi people. The Government has proven itself unable to lead the country diplomatically and pacifically. When Defense Minister Hazem Chaalane threatens to kill Muktada Al-Sadr, he uses the same methods as the old regime...

On the intentional nonviolence, here is the final exchange between Hennion and Moussawi:

Q: Won't a massive arrival of Shiites in Nadjaf increase the risk of disorders?

A: There won't be anything like that. The majority of Iraqi policemen understand that it will be a peaceful protest, lead by the highest religious authority in the country. If nevertheless they interfere, the protesters won't react, they will let things happen. If the government's guns are pointed on their road, some will fall, but the others will proceed further untill Najaf.

Btw, I put that emphasis in there... Interestingly, Moussawi concluded by putting the planned action into a specifically Shi-ite historical context:

Our Iman Hussein had called the Shiites to march upon Kerbala in order to fight the Omeyad calife Yazid. It's almost the same to-day, with the difference that Hussein fought until death, while the Ayatollah Al-Sistani advocates a peaceful march, a march for peace.

And actually, the discipline of the march participants in not returning fire in the face of some truly outrageous provocations, in both Najaf and Kufa, was quite notable... And that seemed largely true both of those marchers who expressed loyalty to Sistani and of those expressing loyalty to Muqtada.

The provocations apparently came from Iraqi security force people. Some of them were apparently acting from intense fear, or whatever; others perhaps not? But anyway, despite being fired upon, the marches more or less kept their integrity and won their goal of defusing the violence of the preceding confrontations in those cities.

What an inspiring phenomenon!

I know that many people are not familiar with the long record of Muslims in nonviolent social/political action. Badshah Khan's movement in Afghanistan and the "northwest frontier" region is one good place to start studying the subject.

I also want to note one strong indication from the interview that Sistani and his entourage--like most successful practicioners of intentional nonviolence-- also seem to operate with a strong dose of political realism.

When Moussawi was asked what the "meaning" of Sistani's call for a march on Najaf was, he replied:

Ali Al-Sistani also wants to prove to the whole world that the Iraqis, and particularly the Shiites inside and outside of Iraq, are still following the orders and the advices of the Marjaya and of its main religious leader.

The Iraqi Government represents the Iraqis of the outside, but not those of the inside. The only true actual authority is the Marjaya, whose center lies in Najaf. For the Shiites it?s the equivalent of the Vatican for the Catholics. Najaf will be the capital of the Shiite world and will remain an independant city. The future elected government will have to respect this capital and its representatives.

Yes, I think he's made that point clearly enough now!